Post by starviego on Dec 2, 2019 21:05:10 GMT -5
Some feel that Charlie never actually believed in all that Helter Skelter stuff, and that he was only using it to get his followers to kill, killings that were really ordered for other reasons.
Snapping by Flo Conway and Jim Siegelman, c.1978
pg201-3
LVH: "To this day(1977), I don't know if he really believed what he was saying, or if everything he did was just to get even with the world."
In one of his last interviews, Bugliosi—who passed on in 2015—said he did not think Manson believed the Helter Skelter concept.
But I think the evidence is good that yes, Charlie did really believe it:
Member of the Family: My Story of Charles Manson, Life Inside His Cult, and the Darkness that Ended the Sixties by Dianne Lake
Chapter 12 PANHANDLING AND POSTULATING
"...even in the beginning(1967?), he was indoctrinating us to believe that black people were going to rise up collectively against white people. While he wasn't necessarily framing it as an armed conflict initially, he talked to us in the Family about the blacks and whites and the coming insurrection. As he told it, he had been in jail with black people, and this was something he had heard from them."
www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-08-10/how-charles-manson-cast-his-spell
After the Beatles’ “White Album” came out in November 1968, Lake felt that Manson was starting to become ever more delusional, announcing that the music was speaking directly to him and telling him to prepare for a race war he called Helter Skelter.
Manson's Right Hand Man Speaks Out by Charles "Tex" Watson c. 2012 pg34
Tex: The spontaneous songs he sang in the confines of the family spewed forth this hatred, different from what he later released for public consumption. ... Helter Skelter became the theme of every song he wrote; a violent revolution, a bloody conflict between whites and blacks.
Tex Watson, Will You Die For Me? pg16of120
People are bound to ask at some point if Manson actually believed we would find the Bottomless Pit, or if it was a delusion he merely fostered among his followers. I will never know for certain, but I'm convinced he believed it as much as we did. He was absolutely sure he was Jesus Christ. It had been revealed to him three years before on an LSD trip in San Francisco, so why shouldn't he lead us first into the Pit and then back out of it to rule the world? He shared the madness he created in us; he was finally its most ardent disciple.
Charles Manson - 1992 Parole Hearing Nov 29, 2017
Steven Kay on HS: "Now I know this sounds bizarre, but the problem is that Manson and his followers believed in this motive enough to kill innocent people. At the trial we showed that Manson was so serious about this that he went to a sporting goods store in Santa Monica and bought expensive golden rope that he was going to lower himself into the bottomless pit. He rented scuba equipment because he thought the entrance to the bottomless pit was under some underground river in Death Valley and he was looking for the entrance."
Gregg Jakobson also thought that Charlie was serious about the Helter Skelter philosophy. His testimony at the TLB trial:
www.cielodrive.com/archive/record-film-producer-takes-stand-at-manson-murder-trial/
Jakobson said Manson, whom he first met in the spring of 1968, often talked of “Helter Skelter” – which the hippie chief described as a black-white bloodbath in which the Negroes were to emerge victorious and take over the United States. ... The witness explained Manson felt the blacks would win the bloodbath, but he and his “family” of young nomads would escape destruction by going to Death Valley.
“He firmly believed there was a bottomless pit in the Death Valley that could be inhabited,” Jakobson noted. ...
Jakobson testified that Manson... even acquired a record player for the Spahn Ranch near Chatsworth, stronghold of the family, so he could play the (White)album over and over again.
"Sympathy for the Devil, the Greening of Charles Manson" is the title of a chapter in a book called No Success Like Failure, by Ivan Solotaroff, c.1994 pg177
Gregg Jakobson: "See, Charlie really believed what he believed in, he never faked it. His reality was bizarre, but so is prison and that's where Charlie came from."
Juan Flynn interview
www.xenu-directory.net/news/library-item.php?iid=4037
But no matter what the cult leader did, he said he knew he was right, Flynn added, because "he felt he had the seal of God in his forehead." "When he called himself Jesus Christ, he believed it."
Paul Watkins
In Watkins' own book, he states "Things got more intense, Charlie’s raps more elaborate and graphic: 'You know what’s gonna happen one of these nights…the blacks from Watts are gonna break into the houses of some rich white piggies in Beverly Hills and start wasting them…you know…and it ain’t gonna be very pretty…like they’ll be vicious…they’ll chop them up and mutilate them and fling blood around; then whitey is gonna retaliate…'"
lhttps://www.lamag.com/longform/manson-an-oral-history1/?fbclid=IwAR3BenJqV3ar7xDtUHjploVtaNAUlN8LKuDFnGwgio0wrtwV4Hgu7DcUpKo
--SHARE: Charlie talked about Helter Skelter every night ... I think Charlie really believed his own hype.
youtube.com/watch?v=RX_0PYzLCBg&googe_comment_id=z12xj1ejosyxdt4zs04ccxji4yymhpcwgbo Comments by JR RAY
In 1969, one of the witnesses against Manson, Paul Crockett, is on tape telling the police in a Death Valley town of Shoshone about this man named Charlie Manson who won't stop talking about Black Muslims gearing up to attack whites.
In 1969, one of the witnesses against Manson, Paul Crockett, is on tape telling the police in a Death Valley town of Shoshone about this man named Charlie Manson who won't stop talking about Black Muslims gearing up to attack whites.
www.thedailybeast.com/ex-manson-family-member-dianne-lake-reviews-quentin-tarantinos-once-upon-a-time-in-hollywood
Dianne Lake: “That wasn’t it,” she said, pointing instead to Manson’s conspiratorial predictions of cataclysmic race war. One of the main theories about the murders, presented by prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi at trial, was that Manson predicted his family would attract all the white hippie women of Haight-Ashbury. The migration, Manson believed, would cause a backlash among black men, prompting a series of attacks against white men, who in turn would lash out, until all devolved into a murderous near-Holocaust, realizing the lyrics of the Beatles song “Helter Skelter,” and from which only the Manson Family would emerge unscathed.
“That had been part of our existence,” Lake said. “I know that there’s a lot of people out there that say that’s BS, but I was there. He had been talking about this race war for a long time. Then once The White Album came out, it was Helter Skelter. But it was still this race war, and we were preparing for it. And once it was over, ta-da! Charlie and family would rise from the ashes and, you know, repopulate the earth and fix everything. Charlie thought he was this Messiah. He thought he was Christ, coming again. It was just crazy.”
Dianne Lake: “That wasn’t it,” she said, pointing instead to Manson’s conspiratorial predictions of cataclysmic race war. One of the main theories about the murders, presented by prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi at trial, was that Manson predicted his family would attract all the white hippie women of Haight-Ashbury. The migration, Manson believed, would cause a backlash among black men, prompting a series of attacks against white men, who in turn would lash out, until all devolved into a murderous near-Holocaust, realizing the lyrics of the Beatles song “Helter Skelter,” and from which only the Manson Family would emerge unscathed.
“That had been part of our existence,” Lake said. “I know that there’s a lot of people out there that say that’s BS, but I was there. He had been talking about this race war for a long time. Then once The White Album came out, it was Helter Skelter. But it was still this race war, and we were preparing for it. And once it was over, ta-da! Charlie and family would rise from the ashes and, you know, repopulate the earth and fix everything. Charlie thought he was this Messiah. He thought he was Christ, coming again. It was just crazy.”
Charlie believed in Helter Skelter so much that even as he was being dragged away in cuffs from the Barker Ranch he is still trying to win converts:
www.lamag.com/longform/manson-an-oral-history1/?fbclid=IwAR3BenJqV3ar7xDtUHjploVtaNAUlN8LKuDFnGwgio0wrtwV4Hgu7DcUpKo
Charlie told us(arresting officers) that his group was out there looking for a place to hide because there was an impending race war. He told us that the blacks were going to win. He told us that because we were number one, cops, and number two, white, we should stop right there, let them loose, and flee for our lives.
Charlie told us(arresting officers) that his group was out there looking for a place to hide because there was an impending race war. He told us that the blacks were going to win. He told us that because we were number one, cops, and number two, white, we should stop right there, let them loose, and flee for our lives.
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